I did not assume we would be doing one other episode a couple of mass capturing so quickly. However right here we’re.
Mayor John Cooper
00:00:06
As a group.
That is from a vigil in Nashville.
Mayor John Cooper
00:00:10
Thanks to our artists for sharing the reward of music. You’re the custodians of that particular reward.
I have been to this place, and I do not imply some form of memorial after a mass capturing, however Nashville particularly. I lived there for a number of years protecting the South, and it isn’t an enormous metropolis. It is dominant industries of music and publishing could make it really feel even smaller, like everybody is aware of everybody. So when First Girl Jill Biden visited town to attend a vigil for the capturing victims of the Covenant Faculty, it was an absolute given {that a} nation music artist could be there.
Will the circle be unbroken?
By and by, Lord, by and by.
That is Ketch Secor, founding member of the Grammy Award successful band Outdated Crow Medication Present. I did not even get an introduction on the vigil, however that is as a result of everybody within the crowd already is aware of who he’s, not only a well-known musician, however a member of their group and a mum or dad of two college aged youngsters. In actual fact, the college his youngsters attend in East Nashville, he co-founded it in 2016. It is referred to as the Episcopal Faculty of Nashville.
So I am sporting two totally different hats right here when a faculty capturing occurs in our city. It is each as a mum or dad and it is as any person who’s on the opposite aspect of the choose up line as effectively. When a rustic singer will get off the street, chances are high at 8:00 within the morning on Monday after the massive weekend, that man or gal is in line dropping their child off at a faculty in Nashville, Tennessee. Relating to your private home, it is totally different.
And the sky lowered within the sky.
Ketch Secor just lately wrote an op ed for The New York Instances that caught our consideration. It was titled Nation Music Can Lead America Out of its Obsession with Weapons. In it, he requires nation musicians to talk candidly to their audiences about gun tradition. I needed to have him on the present to speak about that op ed, like, can nation music actually assist lead the U.S. out of a gun debate? And what are the stakes for a musician within the style if they really take a stand? And what’s it prefer to stay on the heart of all of it as a mum or dad, educator and musician in Nashville, Tennessee? That is the task. I am Audie Cornish.
The capturing on the Covenant Faculty form of prompted you to write down an op ed for The New York Instances. However can you’re taking me again to that day a bit bit? The place have been you while you heard it taking place?
Certain it was on Monday, two weeks in the past, and it was at 10:13 within the morning. I acquired a textual content message from our faculty lawyer saying, I am so sorry, and I had no concept what was happening. And prayer hand emoji is attention-grabbing.
So getting an emoji like that or getting the compulsory “are you okay” that all of us begin to ship one another now when there is a capturing, particularly at a faculty, you are saying it it hits you in a spot of what? Panic. Worry. What? What do you’re feeling?
It is. It is all of the above. It is. It is your youngsters. It is another person’s youngsters. , the pinnacle of college was murdered. The connections between our faculty are very current, and it is as a group member in Nashville, this stunning realization. Oh, this factor that occurs in different cities has come to our city. And it is come not simply to our city, however to our youngsters, to our the place that’s most sacred.
And even to your nook of that world, Proper? Prefer it did not occur at a public college. It did not occur at an enormous college. It occurred at primarily a small Christian main college. Proper. Which is what you what you based one, proper? It had connections.
Yeah. And our faculties are very totally different in that regard and serve totally different populations. Nevertheless, it you already know, we’re all the identical. We’re all each college, public, personal, constitution, each stripe is within the enterprise of believing that children are our future and have to be stewarded and beloved on and guided. And, you already know, that is an actual elemental precept for me.
Can I ask, how previous are your youngsters and do they go to the college you based?
Yeah, they do. They usually’re 9 and 11.
So did the college you based this Episcopal college, did it go into lockdown? Sort of what what did you you all must do consequently?
No, the faculties adjoining to Covenant did, however the others in Nashville didn’t. And so the factor I believe that was so unhappy that first day was the message that went out saying your youngsters haven’t but been notified. The workers is aware of, the lecturers know, everyone is aware of, all of the dad and mom know, everyone is aware of however the youngsters. And we will discuss it tomorrow. However we needed to provide the likelihood to speak about it first. So for those who can think about a choose up line, anyone who’s who’s been via a faculty capturing of their group is aware of, you already know, the choose up line that first day is filled with tears.
Proper. And for individuals who aren’t acquainted with how massive ups and drop offs work lately in faculties, there’s a line proper, the place like there are form of they’re chaperoning your child the actually to the curb and also you choose them up. There’s not similar to wandering out of the constructing the place I believe for those who have been a child within the nineties is what you grew up with. Yeah, it is hand at hand go off.
That is proper, Audie. You need to have youngsters.
Effectively, the juxtaposition of children stuffed with vibrant pleasure and life and oldsters stuffed with grief and unhappiness coming collectively. This assembly to me was very highly effective.
Which means you are standing on the curb ready to get your child. However each mum or dad’s face is simply drawn.
And each mum or dad is taking a look at each trainer and simply, you already know, holding again tears as is each trainer. However each little one continues to really feel very secure. And but everyone knows as dad and mom that no little one is secure any longer as a result of this tragedy is in our yard. It is come to Nashville, it is come to us, to our youngsters.
I suppose I need to begin possibly with Wagon Wheel, as a result of if individuals go to look you up, that may be the primary track they study. And also you even write about it on this op ed. Inform me a bit bit about the place you have been in your profession while you wrote this.
Certain. Effectively, Wagon Wheel is my most profitable track.
Headed down South to the Land of the Pines. I am coming my method to North Carolina, staring up.
And it is a collaboration with Bob Dylan. I wrote it after I was about 17, going to highschool up in New England in a prep college referred to as Exeter, and I used to be had simply realized to play the banjo up there.
So rock me mama like a wagon wheel. Rock me mama, any method you’re feeling. Hey mama rock me
You discuss the concept your greatest recognized track, Wagon Wheel, is commonly blasting out of a truck, so to talk, that has an NRA sticker. And also you point out this particularly, and I would like you to speak about why.
If you make the form of music that I make with a fiddle and a banjo and concord singing and a specific type of songwriting, you are participating in a group that may be totally different than your individual form of background, and it isn’t. Effectively, there is a prepare going by proper now. That is form of proof..
I keep in mind the prepare. Yeah.
The trains are at all times going by in Nashville.
Simply acquired to maintain it happening the podcast. It will add a bit little bit of shade and speaks to what I am speaking about. , the trains are going by. The vans have NRA stickers. , after I was a child, there have been Accomplice flags in every single place. That is The South, y’all. It is totally different than the opposite elements of the nation now, for higher or for worse. However it’s what it’s.
And while you’re round Nashville and you’ve got political conversations, wherever the particular person falls on the spectrum, inevitably somebody makes use of that phrase, Effectively, that is The South.
Like, that is alleged to cowl a whole lot of issues.
Yeah. And whether or not it is alleged to be that method or, you already know, I believe we’re in a state of appreciable development down south, however the vestiges stay, they usually’re vital to speak about on this regard, as a result of one of many vestiges is gun tradition, and it is largely thought-about just like the insurgent flag prior to now, simply one thing that exists right here. Take care of it, y’all. When in reality, now we have at all times had the ability to drop the insurgent flag. There’s one vestige that has been challenged successfully.
And effected change in a method, or not less than elevate the form of societal stakes participating in sure language.
Completely. And so I see the change in gun tradition is rather like one other step in the direction of The South’s evolution.
To my thoughts, nation, Americana, these genres so carefully align with their audiences. It’s totally very similar to hip-hop, like individuals in hip-hop discuss in regards to the tradition and their ties to the music, and the music ties to fairly actually the id of the individuals listening. And nation feels very a lot the identical method. However consequently, it has a whole lot of like guidelines. , there is a couple traces you they individuals do not such as you to step out of. Are you able to discuss how that performs out in fashionable nation?
Certain. Effectively, as we speak’s nation singer won’t come from The South and is school educated. So that they are in has already modified the stereotype of who sings nation music. , it is it isn’t coal miners anymore. The coal miner’s daughter like all of us love Loretta, however that is not who’s on primary proper now. In order that a part of it has modified lots. However what hasn’t modified a lot are the attitudes of the viewers.
Which to be clear. The nation music viewers is also wealthier and are choice makers and our usually managers, there’s been form of like a whole lot of analysis into many people who find themselves within the viewers, and the viewers in all probability seems a bit totally different than individuals count on as effectively.
Effectively, I did not know to enter this, however however I am excited that we’re, Audie, as a result of, you already know, nation music actually particularly, and to make clear, modern nation music on the radio is an actual secure house for us to not discuss political divisiveness and never discuss issues of of substance. However as an alternative we’re all form of studying the Pulp Fiction collectively. And it is it is
Which is why it is standard, proper? I imply, through the pandemic, I heard the expansion of listening to the music or streaming possibly was up 15%. It was increased than some other style.
Individuals welcome that secure house.
Journey story. It is you already know, it’s totally a lot tales, intergenerational household tales. That is the form of stuff that goes primary is the track about grandpa and what man he was and the way if we may very well be a bit bit extra like him, then the world could be a greater place. So this form of, you already know, hallmark form of these beliefs which can be tossed round won’t be that reasonable for as we speak’s actuality of, you already know, I labored I am a part of a worldwide economic system working two jobs. And, you already know, I am hoping my youngsters are going to go get out of state tuition or no matter. And but we nation music actually offers in nostalgia. And that nostalgia is a an vital antidote to all the ache that one can witness within the click on of a mouse.
Proper. So how does gun. Tradition work together with that nostalgia, storytelling, since you’re saying in a method that that is constructed into the music, too.
Johnny Money singing I Shot a Man in Reno to Watch Him Die. Hank Jr Singing about. Yeah, I might prefer to spit some seaside nut in that dude’s eye and shoot him with my previous 45 as a result of a rustic boy can survive. It is a method to for nation music to retain authority in a altering world. And guns–
However do you hear it within the fashionable music? Are there? You do not have to pick any artist. However do individuals nonetheless discuss that?
No, Audie. And that is the factor. We do not discuss weapons. If we do, it is a track about I took my boy attempting to find the primary time. It is once more, dealing within the nostalgia. What it isn’t saying is I’ve acquired an AR-15 in my assortment. However the actuality is that many, many listeners do. And but it is a secure house the place they don’t seem to be confronted by the music to a altering actuality. As a substitute, they’re allowed to say, I taught my little one tips on how to, you already know, I imply, after I was a child within the eighties, like I went hen hunt with Dad, I realized tips on how to hearth a weapon. I realized tips on how to clear a weapon. These items are vital to the ways in which gun tradition is usually a constructive, however the secure house is that we’re not speaking about what it means in as we speak’s America. As a substitute, we’re just about hanging in yesterday’s.
So what’s it like for artists resembling your self to lift this subject?
Individuals hold saying, thanks for being courageous. And I am like. who’s courageous is the child that pulled the hearth alarm, you already know, within the hallway below gunfire in our city in a faculty, a child that was a 3rd grader. Now, that is courageous. All I am doing is simply I am a singer and I’ll sing in regards to the stuff that is actual. I am a author, and I’ll inform what I see.
I do not need to learn an excessive amount of into the zoom, however I. Are you getting emotional speaking about that?
Oh, yeah. I imply, I have been I have been crying for 2 weeks, ya’ll, prefer it’s… When this involves your city they usually bury the identical age child as yours. After which after which, like, whereas the graves are nonetheless contemporary, the information cycle strikes on to Stormy Daniels, and that is the fact. It is like, Good God, the place can we stay? What can we not care about youngsters in any respect? It is simply over. So that is my method of claiming it isn’t over and it will not be over till these deaths, these three deaths of American youngsters gunned down within the third grade, till they imply one thing, that is when it’s going to be over.
Extra with Ketch Secor in only a second.
You might be demanding a brand new form of motion come out of the south. And that it partly be led by people who find themselves cultural figures as effectively, not simply politicians, individuals resembling your self. Why do you assume it might make a distinction?
Effectively, I believe that Nashville stands uniquely poised to steer a response to the college capturing epidemic.
However why do you assume that? Proper? We simply watched the Tennessee State Home expel two members as a result of that they had a protest associated to gun coverage. Expel, not censure, not reprimand. Attempt to kick them out. So what what to your thoughts leads you to assume that?
Effectively, Nashville, even supposing the state legislature is what it’s, Nashville is a really progressive metropolis. And I am not saying that Tennessee goes to prepared the ground. I am saying Nashville.
Yeah, however is not that the robust half? If in all these states and it isn’t simply Tennessee, you’ve got acquired these blue cities, these little blue dots in a sea of crimson, and by crimson I imply very conservative, very pro-gun, pro-Second Modification legislatures. This seems like an uphill battle. What you are calling for.
And I do know it is price it. I do not need to as a result of everyone knows it is price it. However I would like I need to perceive why you assume nation musicians are in any method uniquely positioned to have this dialog.
Effectively, and I need to I admire you difficult this Audie. Very first thing I need to say is that altering segregation was an uphill battle in Tennessee. And and when Nashville within the early Nineteen Sixties, within the late Nineteen Fifties stated its first foot ahead, this was the proving floor, different elements of the South have been too unsafe. However individuals gathered in Nashville, a metropolis of faculties, a metropolis of progressive thought within the South to interact in nonviolent civil disobedience. That is the place John Lewis got here. That is the place the Freedom Riders first cease was.
Their trainings, proper, with James Lawson and at Vanderbilt.
All of that coaching at Fisk and Vanderbilt occurred proper right here in Nashville, Tennessee. That exhibits our skill as a as a group to exist outdoors of the state. Now, similar to in that point, the state legislator stated, what are you speaking about? That is not going to occur in our state. We forged the deciding vote on on ladies’s suffrage. I imply, Tennessee has been a bellwether place in these two different cases of nice significance. That is the third. That is the a part of the demise knell of the previous South, which goes to have to alter. , 50 years from now I believe we will be wanting again at these couple of years because the deciding time for a assault weapons ban in the US.
Once more, I need to convey it to the query about nation music artists, particularly mainstream ones who given what we all know in regards to the music, primary, have been socially punished for activism by what we name Music Row, by music radio, by nation music radio specifically, which nonetheless has a really form of sturdy grip in a method programmers do, and even current historical past. Proper. When you consider the Dixie Chicks, and many others., their complete story is a narrative of being ostracized for his or her activism.
, for a man like me, I am not beholden to too many individuals in any respect, however I am not a mainstream. I am not on the Jumbotron, you already know, I am not on the awards present with the highest ten performers of the yr.
Do you want these individuals for the motion you are speaking about?
They’ve a extremely far attain and the ability to speed up an inevitable motion to alter this for our youngsters. And I am asking them via this piece and likewise nose to nose in my group, via conversations of textual content. , I’ve reached out to so many singers prior to now two weeks.
And what sort of textual content you ship.
Hey, I am simply reaching out to all my Nashville music group within the wake of the capturing and sharing this story that I wrote that got here out as we speak in The Instances. Should you get a sec, please have a look.
What’s been probably the most constructive response? What’s been probably the most irritating one?
Essentially the most irritating one is silence. I say within the op ed piece that I believe silence is complicity. I went into the studio and I and I recorded a brand new track on the topic. For the reason that capturing, which is barely two weeks in the past there have been so some ways to be engaged with this horrible story, and it is highly effective answer.
I imply, the explanation why I am asking is as a result of your op ed stated one thing fairly particular, proper? That there are artists who’re drained at being on the form of mercy of the whims of fearmongers, you stated, and that they are prepared to talk to an impressionable viewers. And since different genres, like we talked about hip hop earlier or pop, they do wade into societal points. They are often confrontational about politics. It isn’t like there is not a mannequin on the market. So I suppose what wouldn’t it take, do you assume, for individuals in your business? To begin to do one thing related, which is which is, in impact, what you are calling for.
It’s starting and it is, I believe, in its infancy, however it’s already began.
And so it is about fanning the flames and constructing an enormous bonfire out of what is already crackling kindling. For instance, we have got a profit live performance right here in Nashville that helps Covenant Faculty. And while you have a look at the the roster, who’s on the marquee, it isn’t the standard Americana people who at all times say, you already know, we stand with youngsters, we rise up towards gun violence. As a substitute, it is primary chart toppers. They’re there. They’ve put their hat into the ring.
However is it as a result of it is is it going to be a secure house from politics? If it is a second of a memorial, is that what makes it okay for an enormous artist to be there? Proper. As a result of no one’s going to stand up and say we should always have gun management.
There’s nothing however up right here as a result of we now we have began on the very baseline the place music popping out of Nashville on the radio says nothing about violence towards youngsters in our faculties or about the necessity to rethink the sorts of weaponry that’s related to the Second Modification. Kelsea Ballerini talked about it on an award present. These are the sorts of issues that when any person takes one step and the motion can shortly observe it, then the following step is not as laborious to make. And what I am asking for is that subsequent step. , I’ve gotten a whole lot of suggestions from my viewers. And like I say in an op ed piece, you already know, I see the NRA sticker on the again of lot of vans blaring in my tunes. So, you already know, and we’re out on the street with Hank Jr. this summer time. So, I imply, I am I am used to taking part in to an viewers that’s our nation people. However I really like my nation people viewers. And I and I would like to have the ability to be actual with them. I can transfer freely in each of the areas that the 2 massive silos within the nation. Like, I’d go to work in a single silo and are available house and the opposite one. And I am good with that as a result of I really like these individuals.
What’s your message to these artists who’re simply nonetheless very reluctant?
Nation music has a fantastic future in these instances to swing out previous the fences which have corralled it in so tightly. That I consider on this style. And I consider that it has the ability to hold that reality. , it’s totally a lot rooted in a gospel custom of of the lamentation, the calling out to the nice spirits. Assist us, Lord. We’re simply your youngsters. We do not know shit. We’re we’re dying down right here. Assist!
Are you able to discuss in regards to the track that you’ve got written out of this second?
New materials? , usually, similar to I am in a songwriting temper right here, I am in a a second in time with a whole lot of totally different alternatives as a author to interact on this, whether or not it is, you already know, writing the correct caption for {a photograph} on Instagram or writing an op ed piece for The New York Instances or being on this podcast with you, Audie. There’s so some ways to decide on my phrases proper now and try to have them be resonant for the ache that we’re feeling in Nashville, Tennessee and across the nation as a result of we’re simply so drained, dad and mom, that our youngsters aren’t secure of their faculties. What meaning for me as a songwriter is that I even have the possibility to write down new music about this and to place my cash the place my mouth is. So I acquired a brand new track that is popping out referred to as Louder Than Weapons. That is yeah, I simply recorded it two days in the past.
Give me a way of the tune or lyrics.
Effectively, gosh, I really feel like I should not even introduced it up as a result of it is so…anytime you get a you already know, individuals are cagey about their new stuff!
You are coping with a dude that wept via the entire songwriting course of. Let me sing it for you.
All proper. awakened this morning. It was Groundhog Day. I noticed the identical black veil on a crying face and a flag flying half method. This time it was individuals I do know gunned down in a minute or so. Solely God is aware of when it’s going to cease. However ideas and prayers ain’t sufficient. Louder than weapons. Extra highly effective than bullets flying. Is the voice rising up saying it is about time to place the final nail within the coffin, put the final physique within the floor, calling on each city, shout. Louder than weapons There is a regulation on a dusty scroll.
Ketch Secor is the daddy of two youngsters in Nashville, Tennessee. He is additionally a singer, songwriter and founding member of the band Outdated Crow Medication Present.
Now The Project is a manufacturing of CNN Audio. Our producers are Madeleine Thompson,Jennifer Lai, Lori Galarreta, Carla Javier, and Dan Bloom. Our affiliate producers are Isoke Samuel and Allison Park. Our senior producers are Matt Martinez and Haley Thomas. Dan Dzula is our technical director. Steve Lickteig is our govt producer. Particular because of Katie Hinman. I am Audie Cornish and thanks for listening.
I am the louder than weapons. oooooo. Louder than weapons. I do not need to get up on one other Groundhog Day. No, I do not need to hear one other rat a tat tat tat echoed down the hallway. Freedom’s simply one other phrase for letting each voice be heard, each coronary heart, each hand. Each city take a stand. Louder than weapons. Extra highly effective than bullets flying. Is the voice rising up, saying it is about rattling time. We put the final nail within the coffin. We put the final physique within the floor. I am calling on each city. Louder than weapons.
Sending that one out to Louisville as we speak.
Ketch, thanks a lot for sharing that with us.
Yeah, we acquired. We acquired to. We acquired to do it, y’all.
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